Amazon deforestation and global responsibility

31:37Um so in the past 40 years this is uh we're kind of going to transition from this is really cool archaeology to the Amazon rainforest is being destroyed. Okay? >> Yeah. >> And this is kind of a problem. We talk about the real things on this podcast. It's very cool that we're discovering new new earthworks and new civilizations in the Amazon and new evidence for it. But the reality of the situation is that the Amazon has lost more than 13% of its vegetation cover >> [clears throat] >> in the last 40 years. And some scientists say that the region might not be able to sustain itself any longer if

32:17the figure passes 20%. We're already at 13%. So they it it becomes kind of a conundrum about how agriculture is taking over the Amazon rainforest because um Brazil is an economy that is hungry, is a developing nation. It's one where they realize they've got this vast resource of fertile land, they want to exploit it for their agriculture, right? And for their society. Now, I want to be a bit nuanced here because I think a lot of takes about Amazon deforestation just blames Brazil and blames the farmers in Brazil in these developing countries.

32:58Let's take a look at Europe and let's take a look at America, okay? The American prairie, for example, was a vast ecosystem that rivaled the African Serengeti. >> Mhm. >> And what did we do to it when we came here? We turned it into farmland. Europe has no old-growth forests left. >> Which is so crazy to me still. >> Okay. There's like one pocket in the Black Forest and the in the in in Germany in the southwest corner of Germany near Freiburg, but that's about it. >> Yeah. >> All of the old-growth forest in Europe is done because the Industrial Revolution happened, the Agricultural Revolution happened, and they

33:38they went at it, right? And so now we're we're coming upon developing nations that are trying to get that back. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Right? It cannot be only on them to figure out a solution to make preservation of their forest sustainable, okay? You can't just be like, "Hey, stop stop cutting down trees." It it's I don't know what to do. I'm just saying it's not on them. >> I I think this is this is It's true about a variety of different of what we now call now call first-world countries >> Yeah. >> that were able to burn coal, tear down their natural environments in order to accrue a level of of wealth and um

34:22socioeconomic status for some, not all, >> Yeah. of their people, and it's not evenly distributed. And there's complexities about all of that. Yes. >> But, comparatively to >> [snorts] >> the majority of nations on the planet, there's this cohort of first world quote unquote first world countries >> Right. >> that were the first across the finish line. So, now you're having another batch. These happen in batches. Now you're having the third, fourth, or fifth >> cohort try to do the same thing. This is where you see things like BRICS, you know, Brazil, South Africa, China. China's already there, obviously. Now >> India. >> India in there. Like, who are now trying to effectively say, We're just doing what you did. >> Yeah.

35:03>> And so, but now there's this almost holier-than-thou >> Yeah, because they're the ones that have it left. >> Right. >> Right. >> Right, because we have nothing. And so, they're like, "Well, well." And and now we're glob- we're more of a globalized society with communications, with um supply chain. And so, the things happening over there impact what's happening over here much more than they did, you know, years ago, 100 years ago, 200 years ago. And so, I think your point is is is we need to have a broader discussion. >> Yeah, it's got to be a global solution. >> Right. Because we can't just, again, you know, uh ignore that what's driving so much of the

35:43climate problem and all these other things is because of the things that the first >> Yeah. >> groups that went through did. Not not the ones who are trying to go through now or >> Yeah. >> Oh, sorry. Uh I destroyed all the road behind me, but like no, you can't use natural resources to repave it. >> Yeah. It's like, [laughter] "No, I I want to I want a good economy. >> Yeah. >> I want air conditioning all the time. >> Right. >> Right? I want to use plastics all the time like you guys are. So, it it's it's it's a weird take. I'm probably going to get some hate, but that's what I think. >> I I I think like with everything, unfortunately um it Have you heard this like bean soup uh theory? Let me not go there. But, um [snorts]

36:24we just everything there's there we need to just There's a lot of We live in a complex adaptive system. >> Yeah. >> And there are a lot of variables that go into that. And there's a rush to say it's either this or it's that. >> Yeah. >> And 99.9% of the time it's like a little bit of this, a little bit of that, a little bit of this, a little bit of that. We we need to be able to have complex nuance nuanced conversations. And um it is in all of our benefit uh to prevent catastrophic ecosystem collapse. And it is not going to be solved by any one nation. >> Yeah. I agree. >> At the end of the day. Um

37:05but this is a sensitive issue. Obviously, people have very strong opinions about it. Uh this is a record-level El Niño year. >> Yeah. >> Uh if you're in Europe, y'all have been having fires going on right now that you do not have the infrastructure to deal with. Canada's been having fires that are taking over everywhere. I think it was a Seattle, Washington or >> Yes, I heard. >> Yeah. Burning And look, you know, when I was growing up that wasn't what it was like. >> Yeah. >> So >> It's it's progressing fast. >> We we cannot um ignore the reality that's in front of our face. And it's okay to just talk about it. We're not prescribing an answer. We're not saying

37:47you can't have plastic straws. But you know, maybe these large industrial companies need to be a little bit more responsible. >> Yeah. And perhaps we make them responsible. We we make them. We don't we don't be like Hey. Can you Can you save the Can you not like mess up our only home? Our only home in this vast emptiness? Can you maybe like try to try to try to not mess up the only home that we have? Yeah. This was a tangent, as you can see. >> Yeah. >> We try to keep it tight, but these are complex issues and sometimes we just need to get it off our chest. It's been

38:28a year, so I think we've earned the right to have a little social political commentary. >> wait, one more thing before you move on. I wanted to I wanted to do like a mental exercise because like, you know, we're talking about um we're talking about um modern civilization now, us with lidar and things like that coming in and seeing old old infrastructure and old civilizations, and we're trying to judge the capabilities of the civilizations based on what they've left behind. For example, with Egypt, we can guess that their economy was insane. Um with something like Rome building the Colosseum, we can guess that the economy was insane. >> Mhm.