Real-time proof: eye movement + breathing as dream “telemetry”

32:06>> Okay. I don't want subjective reporting after the patient wakes up. >> Mhm. I want during the dream to know that this is happening. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> But there's a there's a caveat, right? This is going to be this is going to be kind of difficult because as I told you, the brain stem mediated paralysis >> Yes. >> is paralyzing the entire body. >> Yes. >> But it spares the eye muscles because it's REM sleep, right? So the eye is definitely moving. That's why it's called rapid eye movement. And it's also sparing the diaphragm because you're still breathing. >> All right. Yeah. Yeah. These subjects were trained if they were lucid dreaming, they would

32:46move their eye around in the dream and they would breathe. They would huff and puff during the dream. Like in their dream, right? Like so I'm in Yose and I'm I'm like in my dreamscape. I start huffing and puffing in my dreamscape. Well, that's going to transfer >> into your phys >> into the physical body. Huffing and puffing and I could monitor that. >> This is so crazy. So I have the EEG signal. >> Yes. >> I have the signal from my breathing. >> Yes. >> Stuff. I have the signal for from the eyes. And I can now get a signal of the subject reporting back to me during dreaming that he is actually doing this.

33:28>> Y'all y'all I want you to understand something. I want you to understand something. What you're saying is we have now experimentally shown that a patient can communicate while in a dream state, particularly when they're lucid dreaming, back to the researchers that are monitoring them >> across at least two modalities, eye movement and breathing. >> And breathing. Yeah. Yeah. while we're while we're trying to incept an idea to help them problem. Like on top of [laughter] >> on top of all of that,

34:10>> mate, I I'm at a loss for words because that is so it's it's kind of weird because literally the movie Inception >> is like kind of happening. >> It's kind of happening. >> Yeah, it's it's insane. There's no sharing of dreams. Fine, but like a lot of the stuff is there, right? And and the key to this two-way communication is that there's now real time irrefutable >> proof, >> right, >> that the cue was heard, >> right? >> It was integrated into the dream and there is a conscious response that came back, >> right? Because in theory, you could make the conscious response different things. Yeah. >> You could say breathe like this or breathe like that or move your eyes like this or move in order to then track over multiple different >> iteration types to be like, "Yeah, no,

34:50this this >> it's not just like, oh, it's the same single type of eye movement or breathing anyway." >> Yeah. Okay. So, now let's see if there's actually an outcome. Were they able to solve these problems better? So for one, 75% of participants reported the cued puzzle elements in their dreams. >> Okay. >> Okay. Which is way greater than control. Meaning like I I played the sound from the puzzle and the puzzle was in their dream. They were like solving it or doing whatever. Right. >> The targeted dream efficacy, right? the the subjects reported 40% more