Experiment design: puzzle cues + lucid cue + REM insertion

26:34solving the puzzles during the normal day, >> Mhm. >> there is an auditory cue for each puzzle. >> Okay. >> Each puzzle has a unique sound associated with it. So, as they're solving it, there's a unique sound that's being played in the background. So they're associating subconsciously that sound to this particular puzzle. >> Okay. >> Now we get into their sleeping. Okay. Now they're sleeping. We have something called targeted lucidity reactivation. >> Okay. >> They're able to target lucid dreaming to happen in these patients. >> No way. >> Yeah. This is what's crazy. So at 4:00 a.m. they wake up. Okay. and they spend

27:1620 minutes training their mind to associate another set of a auditory clues with a critical state of mind that will provoke lucidity. So, as they're falling asleep, so they wake up at 4:00 a.m. and as they're falling asleep, they get played these three-tonone beeps that are in ascending frequency. It's like beep beep beep. >> Mhm. >> Beep beep beep. >> You hear that? You hear that pitch, guys? You hear that? It's pitch perfect over here. But I mean, that's what they're doing, dude. >> No, no, no. I get you. >> It's kind of crazy. And and and what they're doing is as they're lightly falling asleep, they're aware of that dun, right? And they're like, "Oh, that's the sound. That's the sound." And they're trying to keep that lucidity.

27:56So, they're trying to keep the conscious awareness of the sound while they're falling asleep. >> The the thing the reason I'm kind of like giving all these facial expressions is, have you ever heard of this concept of like binaural beats? >> No. So there's this whole community like you know Monroe Institute and a variety of these entities have done this research into this concept of binaural beats and there are two aspects to it. One is that it helps you the way the way the frequencies are tuned. It helps you like relax, but in particular they people use it for lucid dreaming as like the thing to fall asleep to and then like >> Oh, okay. Yeah, that's that's very much >> it puts you in a the right

28:37>> kind of in line >> and state that enables or makes it more likely that you would lucid dream. It's just interesting that there is an overlap because it's it's very much sort of in the you know people who are quantitative self self-improvement kind of universe. Um so it's fascinating that there's an over direct overlap here. >> I mean it's pretty crazy. Yes. That like I mean dude this stuff is just Yeah. I mean so here Okay. So getting back to this, right? So so they have this like ascending three-tone beep. Yes. that then sort of like makes them sort of aware and try to lucidly dream more. And then here's the track. Here's the key, right? >> They still have those TMR cues, the the

29:18same targeted memory reactivation queue, right? >> Of the puzzle. Yes. >> The puzzle sound is different from this >> lucid sound. Okay. >> Mhm. >> If they become lucid, >> right, >> they're gonna and we can monitor their brain state because we have electrodes on them. So, we can see when they enter REM sleep, >> right? Right? And when they enter REM sleep, I can start playing now the sound from the puzzle. And if they're lucid and they play the sound from the puzzle and they hear the sound from the puzzle, they're going to seek out that puzzle in their hallucinated dream state. So imagine like you're dreaming and you're like out in like yoseite or something. >> This is so crazy. >> And like now you hear the you hear the

30:00dun which is like, oh, I'm lucid. And now whatever sound was associated with a certain puzzle that they couldn't solve, they're going to try to hallucinate that puzzle onto the granite walls of Yoseite. >> This is unbeliev I'm so I'm like we need to do a follow up on this cuz I'm I'm so excited about this. >> It's insane. >> So just to say it back to you from the beginning, the idea is >> and I haven't even gotten to the best part by the way, but >> we we start I don't know if I can take much more. >> Yeah. We we we basically have an a an audio cue when the participants are trying to solve a puzzle that's an insight based puzzle. >> Yeah. >> And the idea is to connect the puzzle to the sound for the participants. The

30:41participants then go to sleep. >> Yeah. >> While they are sleeping separately from that set of sounds, we have a different set of sounds. They wake up at 4:00 a.m. and we're trying to induce lucidity while dreaming. And the second set of sounds helps to facilitate that inducement of lucidity while dream dreaming. That lucid state while dreaming that we've now induced with our second set of sounds means we're now incepting the first set of sounds into the dream. Yeah. >> Literally like the movie Inception. >> Literally. Yeah. >> Literally where they could like feel the vibrations of the car when they were crashing in the dream. >> In the dream. But because the sound was previously associated with the puzzle,

31:21it will basically now instigate the brain to think about the puzzle. The point being, because we've now gotten rid of those guard rails we've talked about before, the brain has more space to explore and is potentially more likely to come up with the novel solution. That is one of the craziest, >> most unbelievable things that we've talked about on this podcast. >> I think I think this is absolutely insane. [laughter] Here's here's the here's the part that I thought was crazy. >> We need a cherry on top. >> Okay, this is the cherry on top. [laughter] Okay, there was so so we've gotten to the part where it's like interactive dreaming. Right. >> Right. >> But at the end of the day, I still want

32:02to be sure >> that I am making this happen. >> Right.