What this could unlock beyond coma research

1:02:17idea that it should be the subthalamic nucleus that we target, which is this tiny like lentil-sized structure. Right? It's actually also quite incredible if you think about it, like that is the boss's office. >> Yeah, you're right. >> Right? For at least stimulation of the brain. Consciousness could be a distributive thing, but just stimulating that tiny structure of maybe let's say hundreds of thousands of neurons at the max is going to wake up a brain that is 86 billion neurons. Right? It's a >> Consciousness is a crazy thing and we're getting closer. So, would it actually a correct analysis cuz there's going to be probably some thoughts about oh, like consciousness is

1:02:58a like you discussed at the beginning a very expansive >> Mhm. thing and really all we're identifying in this last piece is I keep using the grill lighter example. This is might just be the igniter, the little button you press on the grill to turn consciousness on. >> On. Yeah. But, that's that's that's all we're that's all we're saying, right? now. I >> know what the grill being on means. Right, we don't know how big the grill is. Is it a black black stone? Is it you know, whatever. Exactly. >> saying we may have found where we can wake >> Yes. uh a an unconscious from this vegetative or unconscious state. >> Yes. Um and the interesting dovetail of

1:03:39how the 2007 paper we talked about that identified this idea of minimally waking consciousness was actually a key step in order for this to actually also work because that was where we started to zoom in and be able to validate the the the mesocentric model and it's just like everything has to Yeah, one after the other. It has to stack. Right, yeah. In order for this to even be possible. This is really quite nice. It was a good paper. He's Daniel does a lot of really cool work with coma. Um he's actually also in an organoid lab at UCLA. So one of these days, you know, we'll we'll come by UCLA

1:04:21and see your lab, Daniel. >> Yes. >> But until then, nicely done. Very very nicely done. Obviously, the um this is early, Yes. >> but there's a huge the the the unlocks that are there, you know, you could talk about it forever just in terms of not only the clinical or medical Mhm. context, but even for the philosophy of mind kind of stuff, having some mechanistic details. Yes, that's that's big. And then and I think I think the part that is going to be most influential for this paper is actually the the the way that he went about using this biophysical model.

1:05:02>> Yes, I totally agree. >> And tweaking, right? That's a that's a very interesting way to do things. >> I totally agree. And I can already imagine it being used for all sorts of stuff. Material science like physical things, you know, like we've got really good models about how atoms work with each other. >> Exactly. Make a again genetic network type thing. You know, like that is the part that is really Yep. like I think mechanistically very interesting to me. The methods is very nice. I mean obviously the results are incredible, but to me the the one I'm most impressed about is the way that he used this biophysical model. Uh as someone who's coming more from the

1:05:42technology and software world, it is naturally what I'm able to better engage in at a at at a deep level. Um but I agree with you. I think they've basically created a conceptual framework around how to design ML and AI architecture as a as an end-to-end system and process that is subject matter agnostic. Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. Like it could work >> Yeah. That thing can work. in a whole variety of The brain was just the first target. Um but the exact same conceptual

1:06:25framework could work in a variety of different areas. Particularly the data feedback loop and validation process and cetera. Really really I just this was great. >> Yeah. Good stuff. Well done Daniel Toker at all. Again, this was in Nature Neuroscience on March 24th. Fresh hot off the presses. Again, there is nowhere else on the internet, not even on the direct pages of the authors themselves, where you're going to get this level of excitement, passion, and deep dive. They need a break. Daniel needs a break anyway. So he doesn't need like Sorry job to do this and step in. >> Yeah. We'll see what he thinks about our conversation. You actually guys did pretty well. Did pretty well. Now, um just another fantastic paper and um, we we just