Hidden Star in Betelgeuse, Dancing Atoms, Ultra-High-Energy Cosmic Rays & VR Immunity

0:00Hello internet. This is your captain speaking Lester Narre. I'm joined by my co-host and our resident PhD Dr. Krishna Chowdery. This is from first principles. We have a great episode this week. We are going to touch on first Beetlejuice. Beetleju Beetlejuice found a companion but this is not Love Island. A great story about uh a stellar companionship. Second story uh Adam Scale images of Adams vibrating. We've seen Adams doing the Harlem Shake. What does it mean? What are the implications? Story number three, high energy cosmic rays. We're talking too fast and too furious. Fourth story, navigating the stars using a camera. We've figured out an

0:41interstellar Google maps. Or have we? And lastly, we'll end with our mystery box, which is Krishna's story of the day. How are you, good sir? >> I am doing well. Second episode. >> I'm very excited about this. >> Yeah. >> First one went well. >> First one went well. >> Maybe we'll do a third one. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, we'll start with our first story. Uh, interestingly, it got all the way to CNN. >> Yes. >> Which is, you know, usually when news gets to there, >> it's a little bit dicey, >> but this one's not fake. >> Okay. Okay. >> This one is not fake. >> So, the title on the story is Beetlejuice, one of the most familiar stars in the sky, may have a hidden companion star orbiting it. Astronomers

1:23have observed what they believe to be a never-before-seen companion star orbiting Beetlejuice, a pulsating red super giant star in the shoulder of the Orion constellation. >> That's right. >> Why? What exactly is happening here? Why does it matter? >> Yeah. >> And does the galaxy lie on Orion's belt? >> The galaxy is not on Orion's belt. Um Orion's belt is actually just in the galaxy itself. So, it's the other way around. Um, Beetlejuice is just one of my favorite stars and so whenever anything happens with Beetlejuice, I get very excited. Um, this might not matter

2:03in the grand scheme of things to to human beings, but I still think it's an extremely cool observation that we've made um about my favorite store. So, you know what? Tough. If you guys don't like Beetlejuice, whatever. Um, just go see Orion and you'll see him on the top right shoulder. right. >> So, Beetlejuice makes up the top right shoulder. It's unmistakable. It's red. Um, it looks like Mars except it's blinking, so you know it's a star. >> Okay. >> Mars is about the same brightness, but it doesn't blink because it's closer to Earth. So, it's a little bit bigger. It's like Mars is kind of like a circle, whereas Beetlejuice is 700 light years away. So, it's a it's literally a point, and so it twinkles a little bit. >> This is a nice little uh short drive

2:43through the Yeah. >> interstellar. >> Honestly, it's not that far. 700 lighty years in the grand scheme of things is not that far. It's actually the closest red super giant to Earth. >> So when you say super giant, is it it's it's a star. >> It's a star. >> So a lot of people will think, "Oh, it's like a bigger Jupiter." But that's not true. >> No, no, no. This thing is It's nice that you mentioned Jupiter. So this star is so big that if you were to put it where the sun is >> Mhm. >> it would be as big as Jupiter's orbit. >> Oh, wow. Yes. So it would be like this all the way past the asteroid. >> Yeah. It would swallow Jupiter. >> Now you see why it's my favorite star.

3:24It's like it's an amazing star. It's this red super giant. This thing's only 10 million years old. >> Okay. >> Okay. So it's like the the the sun is 5 billion years old. >> And the sun is going to become a red giant but not a super giant. >> Oh. So this is it. This is it. >> This is it's dying. >> It's on the path. >> This thing is dying. It used to be a blue massive star and then it ran out of oxygen because um one of the cool things about stars is like the bigger you are >> the shorter your lifespan. It's kind of like you party too hard and then you're just like [ __ ] >> Yeah. Live free and die hard. >> Yes. Exactly. Yep. >> Stars do that in Exactly. Like the bigger you are, the faster you deplete the hydrogen >> that gives you life,

4:04>> right? That gives you life. And then now you ran out of hydrogen, now you got to start burning helium. Once you run out of helium, now you got to start burning carbon and nitrogen. Once you once you start running out of that, you swell up and then you know things are bad. So this is this this thing is in its last legs, >> but it's this massive star um 700 light years away, 700 times the radius of the sun. >> Um >> and it's it does a lot of really cool things. Okay. One of the cool things it does is every like um I think it's every 400 days it has a cycle where it like dims and it gets brighter and it dims and it gets brighter. Now that's okay. >> That's pretty close to the Earth's >> Yeah. Yeah, it is. Like Yeah. 365.

4:46>> Yeah. 365 400. Yeah. Right. Um it dims, it gets brighter. That's like okay for red super giants because things do that. Okay. A lot of these stars do that. >> If you if you look at other red super giants that are farther away, they'll do the same thing. >> So they don't stay at the static. No, they're called variable stars and they're actually very important for um like that's actually super important for like fundamental science reasons because that tells us how far stuff is by looking at the frequency of of this. It tells us how bright they really are. And then you can tell, okay, well, I know how bright it really is because it's oscillating at this frequency, but I see it as this bright. So, why is why is it this bright when it should be this

5:26bright? Oh, it's because it's this far away. And you can tell the distance to stars. So variable stars are extremely important for fundamental science in terms of like calibrating that. Edwin Hubble did the first kind of survey of that um out in Mount Hubble. >> Oh yeah, >> not Mount Hubble. Mount Wilson >> right in the outskirts of LA. >> This is the same thing you were telling me about the other day I think with like how we use quazars for time and for n like because they're so consistent. >> Yeah, because they're they're so far away and so consistent. You can use them to to to chart like a 360 >> degree rotation of the Earth. In this case, it's like because these guys are so consistent in the way that they vibrate and how bright they are,

6:07>> we can use them to chart distances as as we go out. That makes sense. Yeah. Anyway, so 400 days it does this cycle. That's fine. >> Yep. >> But every 6 years it does another cycle. So there's like a 400 day cycle and on top of that there's this slower sixyear cycle. You see what I'm saying? There's like a slower oscillation on top of this faster oscillation. And that slower oscillation is 6 years. And that one's weird. >> Okay. So, people thought, okay, that's weird. 6 years is kind of long. They thought that maybe there's another star that is wobbling it >> that would be impacting >> that would be impacting this six that would be orbiting it every six years. Yep. >> Okay. But it's been incredibly hard to

6:48see because Beetlejuice is so massive, >> right? It's the size of Jupiter's orbit. So like it's like it's like to try and image the other star. It's like you got you got this one dancing partner that's like >> outshining you in every form of the word. >> This is like I don't think people understand the scale of what you're talking about. Yeah. Like this thing is so incredibly large. >> I can't it's it's hard to even >> Yeah. It's it's hard to even It's so incredibly large and so incredibly bright because it's large. Right. >> Right. that like when we point a telescope at it, all you're going to see is it. >> You're not going to see the other guy, >> right? That's right. >> That's like right next to it, like four

7:28Earth >> orbits away. >> Cuz it's it's basically gets sort of engulfed. >> Yeah. >> In in the in the in the super giant. I mean this sounds very similar to what we talked about last episode about Earth's 1 millisecond shift in its orbit time which was partly because of >> we don't know but other objects interacting with Earth. So similarly you're saying that this super giant is having this companion >> that is what is impacting and creating this sixyear cycle in addition to this 400 day cycle. >> Yes. Exactly. Right. And so like the idea is like you have this interaction and we see it in the brightness of

8:08Beetlejuice, but we want to we want to actually see the thing, right? We want to see its partner, >> right? >> So >> that becomes incredibly hard. >> Wait, just really quick, because you're saying we can measure >> and then make a hypothesis that is being impacted by this thing, but we've not made a direct observation. >> Yes. Because when you point when you point your telescope at it, all you see is a single point of light, >> right? You see a single point of light and that light's brightness is going up and down every six years. >> Right? >> Now what we think is that there are two points of light, >> right? >> But how do we resolve that two points of light? Okay, because >> I I actually did the calculation. Okay, >> this thing it turns out this thing is

8:49about four Earth um astronomical units. So four Earth >> orbits away from its star. Okay. And it's got about 4% the brightness of Beetlejuice, this new star. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> So, it's very dim in comparison. >> And this thing is 700 light years away. >> So, that's the same as if somebody in New York City, >> okay, >> went onto the top of the Empire State Building. Okay. >> And put up two iPhones with their with their flashlights. >> Yeah. >> They put them right next to each other. Right. You hold two iPhones, you hold two iPhones, you put the two flashlights. Yeah. >> Right. Imaging Beetlejuice and its companion. It's as hard as imaging two flashlights

9:30on two iPhones right next to each other on the Empire State Building from Los Angeles, >> right? Imagine trying to take a picture of that from LA. >> I mean, the Samsung Galaxies are pretty good. >> Hey, >> you know, right? The Xiai phones are also pretty good. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, >> but I don't believe >> I don't think I was even if I was at Spire 73 in downtown Los Angeles, the highest open air bar in the Western Hemisphere, at least as of two years ago. >> It's great bar >> and I pointed it at New York. >> Yeah. Well, the Earth would be in the way because the Earth is round. >> Ah. >> Um, but let's let's assume it's flat. >> Let's assume let's assume it's flat. Fine. Don't don't clip this. Okay. Yeah.

10:13But but the I think like I don't even know that I would get to the east side. >> No. Yeah, you wouldn't. Yeah. Like even if there was a vacuum, right, you wouldn't be able to resolve these things. They would it would just if you were lucky enough to even see the two iPhones, they would be like one dot. >> This is actually really helpful context for understanding the scale of the challenge that we're solving with these with with these experiments and these tools. >> Exly. Yeah. So it's it's an incredible feat that we could do this and the image that they produced is amazing. They use the Gemini Space Teles, not the Gemini Space Telescope, sorry. They use the Gemini telescope in Hawaii. Yep. That's at the peak of Monaca >> in the big island of Hawaii. It's a beautiful massive telescope. >> Hawaii. >> Yeah. It's it's one of the best parts of

10:54Hawaii is the fact that they have these incredible astronomical observatories that are like >> unmatched in the northern hemisphere, >> which makes it cuz no light pollution. >> Yeah. No light pollution. It's It's like perfectly poised. super high altitude in the middle of the ocean 13,000 ft above sea level like >> which is 4,000 ft lower than the Arakama cuz the Adakama one is about 17,000 so >> yeah and Adakama is basically a bunch of Europeans like they've they've colonized the [ __ ] out of Chile's high desert >> for astronomy but it's for astronomy so you know >> I will make a small caveat we do respect the desires of the locals in Hawaii and

11:35that their lands are theirs and so this is not a claim to that land as being property of the globe. However, there is a lot of value for all of us in being able to have these tools in particular locations and we are grateful for the people to the people of Hawaii for that. >> Yes, we're incredibly grateful for the people of Hawaii for lending their land to give us these tools to explore what really is the final frontier. Right. Right. Like I, you know, I don't want to digress too much, but it's like in in in the cultures it's like >> exploring the unknown, right? exploring the oceans was how they got to Hawaii and now it's like they're exploring the vast ocean of space. >> Right. Right. >> It's it's incredibly romantic to me that

12:16like it's, you know, Hawaii is Hawaii is the spot where all this >> where all this is happening. I I will say that my uh my wife wanted me to propose when we went to Hawaii and we're looking at the observatories. I did not get the memo. So, that did not go over well. >> Oh, dude. >> However, we are still here today. So, >> yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're good. >> It could have been worse. >> It could have been worse. >> It could have been worse. Yeah. So, I proposed on Mount Wilson. >> Oh, really? >> Yeah. Yeah. So, I don't think she got the memo, but but I had the memo. >> This is great. >> So, so the the the the real story here is is we we sort of this connection between measurement and direct observation. Yeah. Right. Or or measurement. >> It's like a hypothesis, right? We're doing the scientific method where we see

12:58this thing and we exhaust all the other possibilities and we're like, well, it's got to be like a companion. And then we're like, okay, how do we measure this thing? And so we we point this um Gemini north telescope to it. Y >> and um we also use this thing called speckle imaging which was actually developed at UCLA. A lot of it was developed at UCLA to try and image the center of the galaxy to see those beautiful um star trails around the black hole center that won Andrea GZ the Nobel Prize very recently. Um it was actually like on the floor above my PhD lab. I was on the fifth floor and then the sixth floor was basically all an imaging lab that was trying to

13:39>> make imaging these tiny little things possible, right? And they used that to to prove the super massive black hole. Um but in this case what they used um in speckle imaging is basically like you take a bunch of really fast images. >> Okay, you take a bunch of really fast images and then you average them together. The reason why you're doing this is you treat each image as an independent sample. So instead of like taking a long exposure >> where like the atmosphere is in the way and so you get a lot of blurring, what you do is take a bunch >> and then you >> mess around with each image and average it in in just the right way that you can start resolving like incredible detail. >> That's very

14:19>> right. Cuz you want high resolution and high contrast, >> right? Which you can't get on the long exposure. You can't get with a short exposure, but high volume average. >> Exactly. So that's called speckle imaging. And some of these exposures, they're like extremely short. They're like 14 milliseconds. 14 milliseconds. >> This is Oh my goodness. >> Right. And you're taking like thousands of these and and then you're averaging them together. And finally, you get this beautiful picture of Beetlejuice and it's Little Companion. The Little Companion is like 4% as bright as Beetlejuice. So obviously we weren't seeing >> the Little Bro. This is Little Bro. >> Little Bro. And and Little Giant. >> And unfortunately um it is not a nice relationship. This is not >> Oh, okay. So, I >> This is not a Disney happy ending.

15:00>> I referenced Love Island earlier because I thought companion is usually, you know, referenced. It's not going to end well. >> I imagine the super giant >> Yeah. >> is going to be engulfing. >> Yes. >> The companion. >> Yes. >> We don't support Yeah. This 4% >> the size. It's not It's not It's like I think in the next 10,000 years it's going to it's going to be gone. We're going to get I'm so happy we're going to be able to see that in our lifetime. >> Yeah, it's going to be it's going to be pretty cool. Um, one last thing. Sorry. >> No, no, no. Go, go ahead. >> Oh, I was going to say one last thing that I think is um uh very nicely done by the astronomers, right? When when you discover a new object, you tend to get

15:42to name it. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Mhm. >> So, Beetlejuice. >> Beetlejuice is an interesting name. >> Spelled Be E T L G E U S E. >> Yes. Not like the Beetlejuice we know. It's like it's like a French. >> Yes. This is a weird weird Beetlejuice. It's actually um an Arabic >> Okay. >> name. Okay. Um it was named by the Arabs back when um you know Europe was in the dark ages and Arab Arabia was you know where >> um scientific learning and all of that was happening. >> They don't they don't teach us that in school. >> No. But it's >> they like deliberately ignore like centuries >> like algebra is from algebar. Algorithm is like named after an Arabic word.

16:23Anyways, um Beetlejuice means the hand of a giant. >> Okay. >> Because like it's on his shoulder. Yeah. Right. Okay. >> Um and they probably inherited those constellations from the Greeks. >> Got it? >> Right. Um >> and Eljus means giant >> in Arabic. >> So they stuck to that theme and they're naming this new star Siwara, which means bracelet. >> Okay. It's like bracelet on the hand of a giant. I thought that's kind of cool. I don't know. >> Look, look, I appreciate that you can both be technical and creative >> at the same time. >> Yeah. Yeah. And Yeah. I I think it's nice, you know. >> So, as although

17:04the ending of the story may not be the most happy, this is not a Disney movie as you said. No. Uh it is another great example of again just the incredible genius of so many of the human beings around us. And so I think now we're we talked about really really big stuff. >> Yes. This is the that that star was the size of Jupiter >> which is >> the orbit not not the planet the orbit of Jupiter like the sun Jupiter. Yeah. >> So now we're going to go in the opposite direction. >> Yeah. So the headline on our second story here uh is first direct images reveal atomic

17:47thermal vibrations in quantum materials. >> That's right. Uh and then the by line goes uh researchers investigating atomic scale phenomena impacting next generation electronic and quantum devices have captured the first microscopy images of atomic thermal vibrations revealing a new type of motion that could reshape the design of quantum technologies and ultra thin electronics. So the way I described it was we've seen Adams do the Harlem Shake. Mhm. >> So, but it seems like the key idea here is it's an imaging feat of something really really really small and the thing that we image that was really really

18:27really small was was doing a little shimmy. >> Yes. Um so how do we go from this really small thing vibrating to ultra thin electronics? >> Yes. Um well first we got to understand what is the thing that we imaged. Okay. >> Yes. >> So for that >> um have you ever heard of mare patterns? M O I R E. >> Yes. Like with the accent on Yeah. >> That's you might have seen it. Yeah. It's kind of like that. >> Do you know what it is? Um in in film you get it on your imaging like in

19:07particular situations they they call it's like it's mo effect. >> Yes. The Yes. Exactly. And and so yes, but what does that have to do, >> right? Like like I get it. You you can get it all the time if you like if you if you take your phone and then like if I were to take my phone and then take a photo of your LCD screen, >> right? And then I zoom in on the like if you've ever taken a photo with your phone of like a screen and then you zoomed in on the screen, you're going to get these like weird like like netty patterns, you know? And and why is that happening? That's because there's a pattern on the LCD screen. Okay? So, because the LCD screen is a bunch of pixels, so there's a there's a regular pattern on there. And then your phone,

19:48>> the way it's displaying it has another pattern, right? So, what you're doing is you've got these two patterns. You've got these two patterns that are overlapping. Yeah. >> And when you do that, you get these giant patterns like there's a third bigger >> pattern from the from the sort of the amalgamation of those two small. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, what you need is like two small patterns and then you slightly offset it and you'll get these like nice like looking bigger patterns. >> I think some film people would disagree with you about the characterization of nice. >> Yes. However, I don't know if it's nice. >> From a quantum materials perspective, it is quite nice. >> This is Okay. Okay. So, I do know what you're talking about. And it's a

20:29basically it's a it's an interference pattern. >> Yes. It's an interference pattern between two regular 2D patterns, right? There's like two patterns in 2D. We're making them interfere slightly. It can't be like completely. >> Got it. >> It's got to be like just slightly a little bit off. And then you'll get these like long range patterns, right? The the the smaller the difference between them, the the longer the range, right? Um and so what you can do now is you can create these like silicon heterosructures. So you can have these like materials that are made out of silicon and then you like put some other stuff in it. Yep. >> Right. >> Like chips. >> Yes. I mean chips are Yeah. Chips are

21:10exactly like silicon and I think boron or like some other kind of element on top. But in this case, what we're really trying to do is we're trying to we're trying to measure the properties of tiny like extremely thin silicon heterosructures. Okay, heterosructure heterero just means different. So you're putting some other stuff in there. >> Um >> you got the silicon and usually this structure forms a kind of 2D lattice, right? A 2D grid. >> Now if you stack two on top >> like graph paper. >> Yes. Yes. If you stack two on top, >> then there's going to be some kind of defect, right? Usually, and that's going to cause these mor patterns because you've have you have a lattice of like atoms and then you have another lattice

21:51of atoms. These these lises are like nanometers >> apart. So like you know tens of atoms apart and then and then there's going to be some defects. So you get these mo patterns within the atomic structure >> of the thing that you're trying to study. Freddy. What it makes me think of is when I was in math class and I would have my notebook and I would have graph paper and if I would remove the paper slightly so it wasn't perfectly aligned with the page below it, you could kind of see a little bit of the Yeah. of >> you could exactly see more. >> Right. Right. Like it's is is it loosely in a simplified way a similar concept. >> I mean no it's literally that concept. >> Okay.

22:32>> It's not even loosely. It's literally that right. You got grid. You got a grid on top and then it's a little bit off and you get a little pattern. Okay. >> Right. Got it. >> So, so, >> so, so what? So, these in this pattern >> we're trying to image this really really small structure. >> Yeah. >> That has these patterns present. >> Yes. And so these patterns um like these structures, right? These like thin structures with like these interacting sheets that have this like long periodicity in space. They're really important for things like superc conductivity, heat conduction studies, new materials like stuff of the future materials >> like the stuff that we want to make in

23:14the future. We want to make it cheaply. We want to make it at an industrial scale. But in order to do that, first we need to understand physically what is going on. >> So as as an analogy, we have uh a Lego block that's 8 by 8. >> Yeah. >> That's the level at which we can like engineer. >> Yeah. We're trying to get down to a Lego block that's one by one >> like in a smaller like an understanding of understanding of the Lego block at that scale >> at that scale and at that like even you're you're trying to also make the Lego block like incredibly cold so that you can understand the physics at the basic level. I got >> right and you're trying to understand like >> the atoms within the Lego block in some

23:55sense. Right. and like how the Lego block stretches and and and shears and squishes. >> That way when you make a bigger thing, you have a better handle on everything. >> You understand all of the sort of derivative outcomes that will happen because of effects at this really really really really small scale. >> Yes. Yeah. And so you've got these like mor patterns, right? Yep. >> And it turns out these patterns will actually move around. >> Okay. >> Okay. Hold on. >> Yeah. Because because the defect, right, the defect that creates this pattern is going to move because the temperature is not zero. So because temperature is not zero, there's going to be some wiggling going on in the lattice. And because there's some wiggling going on in the lattice, the pattern itself is going to

24:36move and it's going to be constantly shifting. So >> understanding how this thing shifts, what's the physics of that >> is incredibly powerful and incredibly needed for understanding like how these these 2D heterosructures work. And that's what these guys did. They're from the University of Maryland. They did something called electron tyography. That's pty coy. >> Okay. >> Okay. Ty tao means like um like to fold in Greek. Okay. And it it's a new form of like electron microscopy basically. Okay. >> But it it it's it's like halfway between X-ray crystalallography and electron microscopy. So electron microscopy is the idea of like

25:19when we when we think microscope, we think like a light microscope, right? Right. Like the stuff in your biolab where it's like it's like okay, you're using visible light. You've got a traditional lens and then and then you try to like see stuff. Now visible light has a size >> like the wavelength of visible light, the stuff that's in these lights of about 400 to 700 nanome. Okay. So, the wave has a spatial resolution of 400 to 700 nanome, which means you can't see stuff that, right? If you've ever been to the ocean, if there's a tiny little island and the waves are like 10 m apart and the island is like a meter, the waves

26:00don't give a [ __ ] They're just going to go through, right? But if the island is massive and the waves are small, then the waves bend around it and that's when you can actually resolve stuff. >> Okay? So light visible light is not going to work because visible light the smallest you can go is like 400 nanometers right >> this is this is why when people talk about like signals intelligence gathering or these kind of detection platforms right you have optical you have radio you have infrared and the point there is that that range >> is at different >> yeah it tells you it tells you the resolution of the stuff and there's like some atmospheric effects in the stuff that you're talking about yeah but like but like for example with radio like If if you if you take like a longwave radio

26:41image of something and the something is like the size of a like you know a size of you then you're not going to resolve anything right because the radio wave is massive >> right so what what are you doing >> what are you doing >> no okay so so the the scale of this stuff just continues to always blow my mind yeah uh that we can even >> Yeah I haven't even told you the the resolution that these guys got Okay so but here's the other thing okay so I told you right like like usually use light and light microscope in the bolab. But now like biologists increasingly they use electron microscopes because of quantum mechanics electrons have wavelike properties and the the wavelength of electrons is around

27:21x-rays. It's extremely small. >> Got it? >> So if you shoot electrons through stuff >> through a sample then you can resolve at the wavelength of electrons right cuz they're the same in quantum mechanics. And so now you can like resolve down to like the angstrom level, >> right? But that's not good enough. >> Still not good enough. >> The angstrom, one angstrom is the size of a hydrogen atom. And that's not good enough for these guys. Okay. Because in order to see these thermal vibrations, >> Were they Chinese? >> Um, no. University of Maryland. >> But were the scientists Chinese? >> Uh, it might be. Yeah. Yeah. >> I'm just >> They might be. >> Immigration matters. That's >> Yeah, they might be. But I mean, I don't know the the citizenship of them and things like that, right? >> That's fair.

28:02>> But I mean, if they're US citizens, then yeah, we got to keep them here. Okay. This is This is important stuff. >> This is important stuff. >> We want We want the We want the ultra thin electronics. >> Yes. Yeah. We want the ultra thin electronics. >> I want the self-driving car that can jump over a puddle. Exactly. Anyway. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um so these guys, it wasn't good enough for them and Angstrom, right? And so what they did was with electron typography, what you can do, and this only happens with periodic materials. So with like stuff that is looks like graph paper, what you can do is you can you can shoot electrons at something that looks like graph paper and you're going to get what's called a defraction pattern. Okay? Right? Because like all of the electrons are going to interfere because of the lattice structure, because of the

28:43periodic structure of stuff. So you're going to you're going to get like one lattice pattern. Now what you're going to do is move the samples up >> and then do it again and then move the sample up and do it again. And because the sample itself is periodic, >> right? The fact that you're moving this is going to give you higher resolution on the image that comes at the end. >> That's the genius of electron typography. >> So, >> like it's the the fact that this thing is graph. If this thing wasn't graph paper, then you'd be just taking like photos of like different parts of the stuff right? >> But because it's graph paper, I move it up. It's the same thing >> thing from before, >> right? And so now I can use this spatial invariance to nail down my resolution in

29:24space. And then I get down to 15 pometers which is 0.15 angstroms. So it's 15% the size of a hydrogen atom. And that's the images that you're seeing there in that in that article, right? Like those individual dots, those are individual atoms, right? Like that's that's a single atom in a lattice and then there's a bunch like each dot is a is an atom. It's incredible. Like the image is incredible. The image we're looking at right now kind of looks like when you were a kid and you go up to the TV really really really close and you can see each of the individual pictures like the on the TV just for >> back when it was like back when it was like uh we had like the electron tubes

30:05>> tubes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. The vacuum tubes we were >> um I I like I'm at kind of a loss of words because >> Yeah. Like it's it's we're seeing like the nature of >> Yeah. the the material in itself like like Yeah. It's it's incredible. Isn't this like a level at which things start to get a little weird? Like we're getting close. >> I mean, no, no, things are already getting weird. >> Things are already This is Yeah. At this level, it's a little >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Now, you're starting to get into like Heisenberg uncertainty style stuff. >> Yeah. >> This is incred. Okay. And so I I think one shout out to us academic research institutions. >> Yes. Shout out to how we import the best

30:47international talent in the world. >> Like, yeah, >> you're still going to get funding. Don't worry about it. We got enough money flowing in. Come here. Help us build and discover incred Yeah. >> It's really hard to like um for a layman to to internalize because I think the delta between my everyday understanding of science as someone who comes from a family of scientists >> Yeah. And then like people who just don't have that conversational context or exposure to the information >> don't really understand how thorough, robust, and outrageous the processes to

31:27do the things we talk about that then that then make it into papers. >> Yeah. No, it's again it's like it's like 0.15 the size of a hydrogen atom, right? That's the resolution. That's the that's the size of the pixel that we're imaging this thing. It's also reproducible. So there's no belief going on here. No. Like at this point, >> no. Somebody else can do exactly what they did >> and be like, "Ah, like, >> oh, >> yeah. And you know what? What'll probably happen is like whoever's the competitor is going to do what they did, make some tweak, make it better, and be like, well, I made it, man." >> Yeah. >> Like that's how scientists are. We're petty as [ __ ] dude. >> Yeah. that that second story I I'm going to have to take a second to that. >> That's crazy because like because the

32:09more we understand these kinds of materials, right, the closer we are to these next generation materials of superc conductivity. Um it could be like it could be like um like there's also some talk about like creating like quantum um computing using these like these 2D materials like maybe the the vibrations in these materials can be our zero and one for the for the quantum computer that we want to make. Yeah. I mean that that that may be a little bit >> caveats caveats caveats >> like there's there's a lot more work there but like understanding 2D materials that are this thin are incredibly important for like quantum sensing which is very important >> we can't get to the next step until we get to the first step and the first step

32:50is knowing how stuff at this level operates. >> Yeah. And this is also the first time that um electron typography has been used to study this kind of material. Right. So the big thing is like using this experimental method which has been used before but now it's like being used for this kind of stuff applying to these mar patterns right in these like 2D defect structures >> this is I think >> so it opens up like okay what else can we do with electron tography >> there's two there's two t there's two big like sort of key insights here one is that the methodology applied to this use case bears fruit >> and two The fruit that we got is

33:30delicious. >> Yeah, >> it's it's it's it's ripe. >> It is nice. >> Juicy. And we can get more of it. >> And Okay. Okay. This is great. So So we started off really big. >> Then we went really small. >> Way small. >> A little whiplash. >> We're going to stay small for our third story. Uh which >> Okay, let's just jump into it. So in Antarctica >> Mhm. >> we have uh would you call it an it's not an observatory. We have a facility. >> Yeah. >> Called >> it's it's not an >> it kind of is an observatory >> but of not the way people think. >> Not the way people think. Yeah.

34:11>> Right. >> Yeah. >> So ice cube not NWA Ice Cube. >> Yeah. >> Uh there's no space in between the two words. Uh, nutrino search sets first constraints on proton fraction of ultra high energy cosmic rays. Nutrinos are subatomic particles with no charge and very little mass that are known to weakly interact with other matter in the universe. Due to their weak interactions uh with other particles, these particles are notoriously difficult to detect. However, uh it seems like we may be on the path here. And so this is where we're talking about too

34:52fast too furious because we're dealing with ultra high energy ultra high >> ultra high energy cosmic rays. >> Yeah. >> Uh I mean this sounds both dangerous and exciting. >> Yeah. It's incredibly exciting because it's a part of physics that like like seriously people don't know. >> Okay. Okay. Like >> how you get something so fast so furious >> because what we're saying is is it this is after Fast Five. So for the Fast and Furious franchise watchers who are familiar uh everything up to Fast Five was >> generally speaking realistic. Everyone could be like, "Oh, I can understand how a car goes that fast. I can understand

35:32>> makes sense." As soon as they started flying off of cliffs and being in space with cars, then the question h all right, how you do that? >> How you do that? >> And so, >> and that's what physicists are asking. How you do that? >> For these ultra high energy cosmic rays, the the shtick seems to be in some cases they're moving so fast that we don't have an idea of how they were able to achieve that level of speed. >> Yes. >> Is that is that correct? >> That's exactly right. Yeah. So, let me tell you first about cosmic rays. >> Okay. >> Okay. Cosmic rays are basically particles that come from outside the earth. >> Okay. >> And they're like big particles. Big particles I mean like uh yes like

36:14immigrating particles from >> from way out there. Okay. >> These can be something as light as a proton. >> Okay. >> To something as big as like a gold nucleus. >> Okay. >> Right. A gold nucleus is like hundreds of protons. >> Okay. >> Right. So um and they're incredibly fast. They're going very close to the speed of light. Okay. Now, usually what we do is we measure the energy of these particles using something called the electron volt, which is um how much energy it takes um to raise to move an electron across one voltage of um electric potential. It's just it's just a way of measuring like energy at the

36:56particle level. Um to give you some idea of what that means like CERN >> which is the the big particle collider. >> It's where apparently uh European scientists are interacting with interdimensional beings according to the internet. >> Oh. Um that's new. I should talk to some of my friends who work there and see if they can put us in touch. >> That' be a great guest on this podcast. Interdimensional beings. >> Tell me, sir. Do you know where cosmic rays come from? Was that you? Was that you? >> Well, actually. Um, but CERN is this is it's it's uh the it's the same thing as the LHC. >> Yeah, it's the Large Hydron Collider. So, the Large Hydron Collider, this massive massive particle collider that

37:38builds the biggest >> No, it's like 13 miles. It's It's like It's across two continent like two um countries like France and Switzerland share a border and it goes underneath that border. It's that big. >> Um >> it's it's what created the God particle, the Higs Bzon. Um incredibly high energies, some of the highest energies that we can pack into a small space into individual particles. Um the proton beams that go around CERN right now are at 6 TEV, which is 6 * 10 12. So 6 with 12 zeros electron volts. Okay. >> I want that in my bank account. >> Yeah. Like that. That's a that's a lot of electron volts packed into a single

38:19proton. Right. >> Right. An electron volt is how much energy you would need to take one electron up one volt. This is >> 6 * 10 12 into a single particle. Okay? That's a lot of energy. But at least we can imagine how to make it. Okay? And and you know you might have seen all the you might have seen all the headlines of being like we're >> accessing the the beginning of the universe, right? And we are because like at those at those energies, >> we're accessing the beginning of space and time itself, right? We're we're getting as close to the big bang as we possibly can. >> Okay. >> So 10 12 10 the 12 electron volts is like

38:59>> we we can do it. We can create that. We can understand it. >> We can understand it. We're good to go. >> And we have all the frameworks. We're good to go. >> We know the tactics and the strategy. >> Yeah. And then, >> okay, >> came the biggest cosmic ray of all time. >> I think I remember this. >> Okay. It was called the OMG particle. The Oh my god particle. >> Oh my. >> Yeah. It was discovered in Utah. >> Mhm. >> Randomly. Um I mean not randomly. Obviously a bunch of physicists had these cosmic ray detectors. Um it had 10 the 20 electron volts in a single particle. That's how they detected 10 the 20 which is

39:39um a million times the energy >> of the proton and the LHC. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> So now now we're like okay whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa >> hold on a second hold >> hold up. How do you how do you pack so much energy >> into a single >> into a single particle? You know what this reminds me of? And it's totally unrelated, but our discussion about vacuum energy, which has a similar question of how can there actually be that much energy. Yeah. It's unrelated, but just the the level of >> Yeah. The level of awe about like how does this how does this even even happen, right? Like uh let me give you

40:20some stats because I I did some calculations about like what that would mean. Okay. So 10 the 20 electron volts >> in a single particle. This is the oh my god particle. Um it um if we wanted to see how fast it was going in terms of the speed of light cuz nothing can go faster than the speed of light. But the closer you get to the speed of light the higher your energy is right. >> This thing had 0.99999999 with 249s before other numbers show up >> in ter oh oh my god >> in terms of like so 0.999 24 9 and then like 5 4 like C >> times times the speed of light. Okay. going that fast. If it originated

41:00um if it originated oh my god >> 1.5 billion lighty years away. >> Okay. >> Right. Then from our because of relativity from our reference frame it would basically take 1.5 billion years to get here. Right? But because of time dilation in relativity the faster you move the slower your clock goes. From the from that particles perspective perspective, from the particles perspective, it would only have lived 1.5 days. >> Get the >> So to us, get out of here. >> To us, it's 1.5 billion years. But to the whatever particle it was, it was just like, oh, 1.5 days. I'm here on Earth. >> Hey, it's Utah. >> It was say it takes us that long to get

41:41to like Texas from here. >> Yeah. Um mate like so the other thing it would it would take a photon 250,000 years so like if if it was in a race with a photon right so so there's our particle the OMG particle and then there's a photon >> if these two were in a race it would take the photon 250 years to get a 1 cm lead on this guy >> I I >> so that's that's that's what's happening here right that's that's where we're like Okay, like this is a this is this is incredibly fast. >> What makes something what makes a single particle that is massive? It's trivial

42:23for photons to move that fast because they're massive. >> Right. Right. Right. Right. >> But this is something that has mass. So it requires work and work to actually like accelerate it. >> Right. >> Yeah. No, I mean >> like you can't like photons, you just create it, it moves because it's massless. >> We're not we're not we're not concerned about the speed of a photon because it has no mass. And so of course it can move incred at incredibly high speeds. >> Yeah. >> Like by relativity it's like trivial but like this thing this thing it has stuff in it and the stuff is like it has a rest mass. >> It also and it rest mass is also huge comparatively. >> Yeah. I mean it's a proton compared to a photon which is zero. Yeah. It's like it's at least a proton. Right. It could be a higher nucleon.

43:03>> Yes. Right. Right. Right. But it's at least that. >> Yeah. and and all of these calculations are are with the least this is this is like I can't so so yeah and you start wondering okay like where do these big cosmic rays come from okay you might think okay it's like supernova right like supernova it's it's a massive star blows up and then it like like sprays a bunch of like mass like these particles with massive energies like fine no but those those cosmic rays should not have 10 to the 20 >> okay like for a supernova to have 10 to the 20 >> is like It's the the star is too big to have >> existed in the first place. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's like how do Nah, >> right. And then it's like so so there's

43:44some theories that suggest that it's it's a particle that's been like forming from the great great beginning of the universe and then it's interacting with the cosmic microwave background which is just the background um like light of the universe that's left over from the big bang. And that light from the universe is bombarding it in just a way to like accelerate it. But like that even that seems like crazy, right? And so the the idea is we need we need more data about this. Okay. So that's where >> a nutrino observatory like Ice Cube comes in. Okay. So Ice Cube was started by the University of Wisconsin Madison. One of the great things about America is that like our flagship state

44:25institutions are just doing like ridiculous research that like other countries would be jealous of, but ours is like, "No, Wisconsin got this. >> This is S tier basic research." >> No, this is like Wisconsin got this. Like all those like alcoholics over there are like, "You know what? We're also going to make the greatest nutrino observatory in the world." >> Shout out WMadison cuz this is this is >> it's incredible. No. So, this thing this this ice cube observatory is like one of my favorite things the humans have done. Okay. We basically went to Antarctica. We're like, we got all this ice. >> Yep. >> What do we do with it? >> So, they board like this like 1 to two mile deep tunnels into the ice. >> Um, so the area the area of the

45:07observatory is about one square kilometer. It's like a few city blocks. And then they board a bunch of tunnels. >> Yep. >> Um, that are 1 to 2 miles deep. And in it they put photo multiplier tubes which are basically like light detectors. Okay. You can think of them as light detectors. Now here's what happens. >> Cosmic ray comes in. >> Yep. >> Okay. Slams into the ice. >> Yep. >> Okay. >> When it slams into the ice, all of that energy, it's going to it's going to hit one of the water molecules or something like that. It's going to spray a bunch of nutrinos everywhere, right? Because all of that energy has got to go somewhere. So, it's going to spray all these nutrinos. And then those nutrinos are going to bump into other water molecules and so on and so forth. Pretty soon, what's going to happen is there's going to be a charged particle, either a

45:48proton or an electron, that's going to move through the ice at faster than the speed of light in ice. >> Think about that for a second. >> I I don't get it. >> Yeah. >> The speed limit of the universe is the speed of light in a vacuum, >> right? >> But light moves slower in stuff, right? Light moves a little bit slower in air. It moves hella slower in water. It moves the slowest in diamond, which is what gives it its sparkle. >> Okay. In ice, it moves pretty slow, right? It's got the the water has this crystalline structure that's slowing down the water. >> That That scares me because if that's the case, then what you're about to say is even crazier. >> Yeah. So, when this cosmic ray came in, it knocked out particles and those

46:28particles had enough energy to move through ice higher at a at a faster speed than light moves through ice. Does that make sense? it because the speed limit is light in a vacuum, not light in ice. >> Okay, >> that's the speed limit. >> We're going to need to take a break because I think my brain is going to explode. >> It's in It's incredible what we're using to find these things. So, you know what happens when something like that happens? >> Yeah, >> you would know this. You're into like, you know, UAPs and all that kind of stuff. What happens when an object moves faster than the speed of sound? >> Oh, I mean, you're supposed to get massive like, you know, you get those sounds the sonic boom. Sonic boom. Exactly. You got a sonic boom. Why?

47:10>> It's too much friction. >> Yeah. Yeah. Because because the thingy is moving through the air faster than the speed of sound. And so you're creating this like disturbance. But like the the What is sound? Sound is >> the the rate at which the disturbance moves through air. So you're piercing through the air faster than the speed of sound. So you get this sonic boom. You get this cone shock wave. >> Oh, does the same. >> We're creating a light shock wave. >> A light boom. >> A light boom. And that's what all these photo multiplier tubes, all these light detectors are catching >> the light boom. Here comes the boom. >> Yeah. Wait, >> these light. So, so all of those tunnels are catching the light booms from these high energy particles as they knock out other particles and create this. It's

47:51called churnov radiation. >> Churnov radiation. >> Chernov radiation after the Russian like physicist who like first proposed it and stuff like that and study. >> I'm glad you made that connection cuz that helped solidify it. Yeah. >> Um because now I get charged particle that's moving. So now the electromagnetic field can't move faster than like the thingy. So you're get getting this like like shock wave in the electromagnetic field and and that's creating a bunch of light and that's what you're seeing. Right. And so that's that's the way that Ice Cube this giant observatory observes cosmic rays. >> Right. >> Right. >> And what's the point here is is like >> we are are actively observing them. >> Yes. Yes. And we're actively observing

48:31them. And what we'd want to do is we want to find these really really big ones. >> Okay? And what ice cube has done right now it is it has put constraints on how many of the big ones of these really big ones can be protons >> and not like heavier stuff. >> Got it. >> Cuz that's important. >> We want Yeah. We want to figure out like how much of it is protons, how much of it is like like helium nuclei, maybe >> nitrogen nuclei, maybe even higher gold nuclei, iron nuclei, right? And so they put a constraint on it. They said that like less than 70% are protons, which means that 30% have to be these higher >> nuclei, which now that that's crazy because 30% are like these bigger

49:13nuclei. How did they get that fast? >> It's it's already crazy that the proton was going >> this fast. >> And then now we're saying there's other stuff >> that's bigger. >> Yeah. >> And it's >> that has the same energy. It's like, you know so >> something is not right. >> Yeah. And it's it's I mean it's incredibly exciting, right? The and Ice Cube I think is expanding or at least it was before the budget cuts. But >> um they they were supposed to do an Ice Cube 2.0. >> Oh, they're going to >> which is like like you know just bigger area and so you get higher resolution. You get more resolution about where it came from. >> Um one of the cool things about Ice Cube is that it's actually more sensitive to stuff like Okay, here's the Earth,

49:54right? Ice Cube is on the bottom. >> Yep. It's more sensitive to stuff coming from up here because then up here because here there's so much background. There's all sorts of random sh only the big stuff is going all the way through filter. >> Yeah. >> So the earth acts like a filter. And so what ice cube is really doing if you're on the north pole you're looking for stuff coming out of the ground. >> Isn't that kind of funny? It is very >> like you're you're looking for particles coming out of the ground like from the earth because the earth has done the work of filtering >> and it's this is stuff coming from god knows how far away and how far. >> Yeah. Yeah. This is like outside our galaxy. >> This is >> like this is this is very much outside our galaxy.

50:35>> Is this facility um because Antarctica has a lot of complicated geopolitical >> Yeah. >> issues. >> Yeah. >> Uh >> it's an international facility. >> Okay. Okay. So there's >> Yeah. This is kind of like a CERN on Antarctica. Makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. I think I mean like uh Wisconsin Madison I think was one of the first people to like create >> create it but but like and they had like two or like not that many but and I think they partnered with other institutions as well but now it's become this big effort. Right. Because it's like it's just like such a >> it's such a nice thing like the earth has provided us with a giant >> ice sheet. Yeah. Yeah. Right. >> Right. That basically doesn't move. >> Right. Right. that we can utilize as a

51:15sort of substrate by which to run these experiments. >> And so this is >> uh I thought that was such a cool story. >> This is No, this is really interesting cuz what's so funny is this facility has so many conspiracy theories about it. >> Really? You've heard about it in the UFO community because people are like, "Ah, no, no, no. It's it's just that's where they it's just tunnels. The saucers are under the ice and they're it's there so that they can >> No, I mean all of the data is publicly available. >> I mean this is this is why we operate from first principles. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, it's just a it's it's just a bunch of tunnels with like light detectors and we're trying to look at light booms.

51:55>> I will I will say there was an interesting thing. I'll ask you about this next week about someone talking about uh nutrinos because because so many people Let me ask you this question. There's not that many nutrino detectors. >> No. >> On Earth? >> No. There's there's there's a big one in Japan that's quite um quite famous. There's one in I think South Dakota in the Black Hills is quite famous. This one's the this one's a really good one. Yeah. Not that many though. >> This the reason I bring this up is someone was making this hypothetical of if you're I'm always talking about the intelligence agency. If you're an intelligence agency and you're looking for a communication channel that's extremely difficult to be able to intercept or hack. >> Yeah. because there's not that many nutrino detectors. It is a medium by

52:37which if you can figure out how to make it a controlled medium, it's it is a secure channel. Yeah, >> I'm not saying that's a thing, but a lot of people have talked about >> No, no. I I understand what you're saying. There was there was a like there's a patent. So, one of my friends um completely unrelated to the UAP community, right? Like one of my friends sent me like this patent that somebody from John's Hopkins had made about like nutrino communication where instead of using electricity they use nutrinos. I was extremely skeptical right because nutrinos are like incredibly hard to interact with. I mean we already we just talked about why I mean like dude in like I kid you not in the early days in

53:17the early days of like nutrino observations. Um >> there was like there there's a funny story of a of a PhD at Caltech who like wanted to like study nutrinos over his PhD and he he had he he observed seven nutrinos in like six years. So he had names for information between then he's like so like in his defense he's like so then I observed Fred and like you know it was like it's it's like it was that hard. Now we're getting a lot more because these observatories are getting bigger and bigger but like you know like to communicate you would need something this big. It's Yeah, it's >> I I >> And and the other thing about nutrino communication is the background is so insane, right? Because like the sun like

53:59we put our we put our hands out right now. The sun is putting millions of nutrinos through us >> through our hands right now, right? So like it's it's it's tough. I don't think it's as simple as like a telephone. >> No, I I I I totally agree. It's just it is interesting >> having both feeds of information. Yeah. uh in in terms of sort of talking talking through this. So that that story starting with you. So we went big small small. >> Now we're going to go back to big >> uh and we're talking about our our our potential interstellar Google maps. Mhm. >> And so this is uh New Horizons images enables first test first number one

54:44numero uno of interstellar navigation by looking at the shifting stars and photos from New Horizons probe. Astronomers have calculated its position in the galaxy. A technique again we always talk about tools and techniques and frameworks because they're not single use. you can expand and sort of get an incredible amount of value from one key insight like crisper in our last episode. Um, this technique could be useful for interstellar missions. So, if I'm trying to go to Alpha Centuri, Centuri Centuri, I'm going to need navigation. >> Yes, that's right. You're going to need navigation and you can't rely on the

55:24Earth. >> Mhm. >> That's the key here. >> Alpha Centauri is four light years away. Okay. Okay. So, if you're trying to beam back to Earth being like, "Hey, where am I?" You're going to have to wait 8 years, right? Four years to get there, four years to get back. There's so many movies. Every space movie touches on, >> oh, we have this big ball that glows or we have this projector hologram and then you're going to use the star, the deep, but >> navigation is fundamental to every space movie. Yeah. Because >> you got to know where you're going. Yeah. Because once you start going >> Yeah. Yeah, once you start going, you got you got and you know what's incredibly romantic to me about this particular story is um we're navigating

56:06the same way that the big explorers navigated back during okay okay European colonization but like >> they they use the stars we're you know don't [ __ ] I I I didn't think of that but like I was I was saying it I was like oh wait no no no those are the that's the bad people anyways but you know what I mean Like it's like Mellin when he went around the world. Well, he died halfway, but when his ship went around the world, he used the stars to navigate, >> right? >> And we're doing the same thing here at um JPL and NASA, right? >> It makes this it makes logical sense, right? And we we we've talked about this where distances

56:46and frequency of different types of interaction quazars. We talked about the the vibration stuff earlier allow for a or the dimming rather the great dimming allow for uh a consistent reference point in order for us to be able to do stuff. But this is interesting because I guess and tell me like help me understand they were using existing imagery. This is another important point. We put this stuff on Earth or in orbit and we point it out and we capture data. >> Yeah. >> And it's not like Twitter or the news where that data has a week of value and then after the first week all the possible insight that could be derived out of that has already been figured out. No, it doesn't work that way. >> No, no, no. That data that data has

57:28timeless value. Right. >> Right. There's always there's always some massaging we can do to get some new insight. Right. And that's what these guys are doing because basically like the New Horizon spacecraft is a spacecraft that was launched in 2006. It was the fastest thing that um humanity has ever thrown out there into the cosmos. Okay. >> Voyager 1 and 2. >> Yeah. Yeah. This thing was just on a straight shot to Pluto. Actually, first it was it was going to Jupiter and then it was going to use a gravity assist by Jupiter to go straight to Pluto. >> We watch space movies so we know about the gravity assist. >> And so it and Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you go around like that. Yeah, you use like Newton's laws basically to like give yourself a boost. Um,

58:10>> and this thing is currently moving at 10,000 km an hour. >> It's past Pluto. So, it took 10 years to get to Pluto. Just imagine how far Pluto is, right? Um, it took these incredible shots of Pluto and then now it's just out in the outer solar system. Um, >> on search for planet 9. >> Yeah, it's trying to find it. Um, we'll see. Right. >> Yeah. So, usually when stuff like this goes out, like the Pioneer that's that's out into interstellar space, Voyager, which is out in interstellar space now, New Horizons, usually um in order to figure out where you are, you basically beam back to Earth and um JPL has this thing JPL, which is NASA's Jet

58:50Propulsion Lab out in Pasadena, um maintains something called a deep space network. >> Um okay, so there's like there's like an antenna dish that's like Near Death Valley in California. There's one in Madrid. I forget where the third one is, but effectively it's at 120. It's like at a third of a circle around the Earth. So, there's always a dish pointing in every direction. >> You know what scene we should insert here is that scene from Independence Day where Jeff Goldblum is talking about line of sight to the president and he's saying the reason that they have this global communication network is cuz anyway, >> of a line of sight. But in this case, there's a line of sight to every part of the cosmos. Yep. Right. So you've got like Earth with like three beams that are going out in opposite directions. Um

59:32and so what you do is you point to Earth and you say, "Okay, how long did it take to get there?" I know which way the satellite is pointing to extremely high degree of accuracy. So um I can then within tens of meters >> resolve where I am, >> which is pretty good if you're close. >> Yeah. >> But gets increasingly not as good if you're far. Is that kind of the point? >> That's kind of the point. If we're trying to do this for real, we're trying to go to the stars, >> we can't be waiting like even New Horizons probably has to wait like several hours, right, to get that information right? >> If we're if we're trying to navigate, >> right? >> Right. Not just like coast, which right now New Horizons is coasted. >> But if we're trying to navigate, what

1:00:13we're going to have to do is update our location as we're going through >> our journey, right? >> And so what these guys did was they looked at where so as you're moving, right? We always talk about on this podcast how we're stuck on Earth. >> Yep. >> Well, these guys aren't, >> right? These guys are not stuck on Earth. >> They're moving through the cosmos. They're now in the interstellar medium away from the sun's influence. And so to them, the positions of the stars are slightly different, >> right? >> Does that make sense? >> Yeah. Yeah. Cuz we're we're moving at some incredible speed as a as a system in a direction. >> Yeah. In some direction, but they're moving this way. And now the the background looks different because they're from a different vantage point.

1:00:54And by looking at that vantage point and our vantage point and taking those pictures exactly, we can now resolve where they are, right? >> Because it can only look like that from one spot. And so we know where that one spot is. >> That makes total sense. >> And that's that's what this thing did. >> Okay. Got it. So it is creating the next sort of instead of just looking back at earth as a single ref as a single point of reference to to understand your position in this larger vastness of space. We are now using both that reference point >> and the reference point. >> No this one doesn't even use the earth. It just that >> it just you because we know >> and so we can back

1:01:35>> engineer back calculate from just >> the snapshot of the sky which has an orientation or like a frame that allows us to be like oh >> yeah we're from there >> over there's the Hollywood sign over there's Sunset Boulevard. Over there's Venice Beach. >> Exactly. Which means I must be here. >> Yeah. Exactly. And the camera on New Horizons was not meant for this kind of stuff. So the air bar is like pretty big. It's like it's like like an astronomical unit like the orbit of the earth. >> Okay. So, not great, but >> it's about the principle. >> Yes. >> Right. It's Yeah. It's a Exactly. It's about the This is the first time they use that principle, you know. Yeah. So,

1:02:16I I think I think I think it's a cool cool story because they use Proxima Centauri and Wolf 359 which are very close stars. They they figured out where they were in in relation to the background and then they they did the back calculation. >> I mean this and >> and this is something we're going to use later, right? I was going to say when we go to the stars, this is this is how we do it. >> We upgrade the cameras so we get higher resolution which will then bring that one astical that error bar down. Yeah. >> Right. And we get that error bar down. >> I mean is there a theoretical situation here where on platform like on the New Horizons 2.0 I know >> it has it can get this is I'm getting in

1:02:57the weeds. It can get some sort of uh asynchronous update from our mapping of the whole universe, right? Like happening in the background, but it can be capturing live imagery. >> Yeah. >> And doing a calculation in real time because we're sort of feeding it this background algorithm in like >> Yeah, totally. I mean I mean it could well how I would design it is how I would design it is is I would have a computer that would already have the information on where the relevant stars are and then use that to then just locally make the make the calculations. >> You can have the LLM on your local machine. You don't need to go to the cloud. >> Although I don't want to hallucinate and this is an easy enough problem where I

1:03:37could just like brute force it. >> Fair. >> Like I don't I don't need a neural network here. But I think this is actually an important insight though. >> I might need a neural network to actually identify the dots. But once I have identified the dots, right? Cuz identifying dots is really good like image recognition in terms of like object recognition stuff. But like once I have the dots, then it's just physics, right? And geometry. >> This I think is really important though because it it allows untethered interstellar navigation. >> Yes. Exactly. >> Like that's like the >> that's that's the key. That's the key. >> That's the key. like I don't want to depend on the earth which might be like very far away at some point >> which also means you can imagine right that you have you know light sales like

1:04:18a fleet of light sales or whatever that go out that have their own onboard system like you described but also because if you send a bunch of them directionally in like a close proximity but not you know over there they could also information share yeah right in their local context. Oh yeah. And then like do like a hive mind type of thing, right? Right. Where they forum sensing, >> right? Right. The fleet learning the same way that Tesla um Yeah. >> Uh learns to do self-driving. I I I just what I'm trying to do is like really hone in on the import of like it's it's the technical insight and what it unlocks. Yeah.

1:04:58>> Is a totally different. You know those games like Age of Empire or uh uh Civilizations where they have the technology they have the technology tree. Yes. >> And the choices you make unlock different paths. >> That's exactly dude. Yes. You're on it. >> This is like why this kind of stuff because now we have all of these 5200 new doors to open new doors to open that if we had not made that kind of fundamental insight which seems at this point because we don't invest money in these things and like we don't we don't have wonder anymore and all that stuff. But like there is It is an It has interesting implications in that being able to have untethered uh navigation. Like imagine having Google Maps offline >> just offline. Yeah. That can like update

1:05:40based on like cameras around your car. >> Like that's that's kind of cool. >> That's great cuz I've been on my in my car with no service several times. >> Yeah. But if like but if your but if your computer just had the Earth memorized, right, and then like just looked around with all the cameras and been like, "Oh, I know that mountain." >> Yeah. >> And been like, "Oh, you're here. This is that's I mean I think that's incredible. >> Yeah. >> Um >> I I think it's I think it's a really cool concept. Yeah. And it's like the obvious thing to do, but like somebody's got to do it and New Horizons is a great probe because the camera's still working. It's like in good condition, right? Voyager is like barely holding on. Like it launched in the 70s. It's like bro just like I'll tell you I'm

1:06:20alive and that's it. Don't ask me to. very and again we there is a delta between where we are now and like it being applied in >> Yeah. But somebody's got to make that first leap. >> We have to start somewhere. Yeah. >> Uh someone we all get fried chicken, chicken wings, burgers, pizza. Someone had to do it first. >> Yeah. >> And so that's why a lot of these stories are so important. We have reached the point in the show mystery box where >> mystery box time >> Krishna is going to bring forth a story of the day of the week rather uh that I know nothing about. >> Yeah.

1:07:00>> And this week it's going to be >> about woo woo. >> Ah mindbody >> mindbody woo woo woo. We we >> I gave you that little preview, right? Mindbody woo woo. As as LA residents, we're big fans of the mind body woo. >> Yeah. Mindbody woo woo. This one's real. Okay. So, this is a story that involves brain scans. >> Okay. >> Blood tests. >> Mhm. >> And Google's Oculus, >> the VR system. >> That sounds like a party I don't want to go to. >> Yeah. Yeah. I think I've been to one of those parties and it was not fun. No. Um, but fundamentally, let me ask a question. Okay. >> Okay. When you get sick or when you get

1:07:41um exposed to a pathogen, how does your body respond? >> There's an immune response. >> Yeah. I get sweaty. I get a fever. >> Yeah. You get a fever. Your immune system your immune system goes up. >> Your first responders in the immune system are like, "Okay, I'm going to I'm going to start attacking whoever is coming in, >> right?" >> Um what if you just thought that you were getting sick? >> Wait a minute. Okay. I have this is funny >> because >> not even what if you just thought that you were getting sick. What if you just saw a sick person near you? >> Uhhuh. >> Okay. >> It turns out the body

1:08:21has the same response. The immune system starts working even if you see a sick person near you. >> Bro, >> that's what's it's crazy. This makes so much sense. >> Really? >> This is Yes. I want This is again mystery box. So, so >> Okay, go on. >> No. No. So, my wife and I I tell her this all the time. Well, when I fly, I've gotten sick almost every time I've flown like in the last 6 to 12 months, which is brand new for me. And in one of the recent times I flew out, I

1:09:02told her, I was like, I'm just gonna I'm not getting sick. >> Yeah. >> And I'm like, I'm just going to think >> that I'm not going to get sick and I won't get sick. >> Okay. >> And it has worked >> since I've started saying that. >> But this idea of me making eye contact with someone with the sniffles >> and then your immune system responding, >> the the the like background system being like uh >> yeah, that's what this is. >> That's That makes But it makes sense, though. That's what this is. I mean, it kind of makes sense. >> It's a survival mechanism. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, that's that's exactly what the authors of this paper are arguing. But to me, no. To me, what's incredible is like your neuron like your nervous system is like

1:09:42>> prying your immune system. You know what I mean? Like it's this like like this connection between mind and body that's like so real. So, let me let me describe to you before we get into it. Okay. Let me describe to you what the experiment was. Yes. And then how they how they concluded all this stuff because it's it's pretty interesting. Okay. So they've got they got these volunteers. Okay. Split them up into two groups. >> Mhm. >> Okay. Um first group >> you had these volunteers put on VR headsets. Okay. These are virtual reality cuz Okay. You know ethically if you want to do this kind of experiment you can't like literally expose people to sick people. All right. Like All

1:10:23right. Okay. So, let's get past that. Um, what do you do? You put on uh the Google's Oculus, okay? And you got one group that has like >> like people with like rashes and like like sniffles and like coughs. They approach in this virtual reality world. Okay. >> And the other group just has like normal people approach. Okay. And then there's a third group that gets flu shots. >> Okay. So the first two groups, the Oculus group, Oculus group that gets the rashes and the coughs, they're being exposed to visible visual stimuli of sick people. >> The second group in the Oculus um cohort, they get exposed to normal people. And then the third group get

1:11:04exposed to real pathogens, right? Cuz a flu shot is like some kind of like inoc like sort of dead virus, but it's still a virus and it's going to create an immune response. That's the whole point of a vaccine. >> Okay? So what they found was that the group that had the Oculus like VR experience with the rashes and the coughs had the same kind of immune response as the people who had the vaccine. >> Get the f out of here. >> And that's not that's not all. Okay. So they went a little bit further and they actually did EEG, which is electrophilography like on their brains where you attach a bunch of electrodes to the skull to try to see like what brain areas are active.

1:11:44They also did um MRI imaging on the brain to see which brain areas became active during that time. >> And the the part of the brain that became active was the frontal and the parietal cortex like up here which has to do with um something called the um it's like a preemptive response. It's the part of the body that like deals with >> the stuff that is near you. >> Like this sense of like self and like >> um personal space. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Your your little aura bubble. >> Yes. Yes, your aura bubble. Um, it activated the uh parersonal space system. >> Okay. >> So, now you've got this like mechanistic understanding, right? Where it's like,

1:12:24okay, I see sick people. >> The part of my brain that deals with like >> my body and like the immediate surroundings of my body are being triggered and then that triggers Yeah. And that triggers the lymphatic system and the and the immune system to then release these things called ILC's which are innate lymphoid cells which are like the first responders. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Right. So then when you did the blood tests on the patients on the on the volunteers you get like the same level of these ILC's that people with >> like it's it's it's so weird. This is >> like it's it's like it's like a a conscious like >> a conscious observation

1:13:05>> triggered like an immune response. >> The way I was thinking about it in my head is like the immune system like is has akin to giving a computer computer vision, right? It's like it's like giving the immune system access. >> Yeah. I mean it it always had this but this is the first time we measured it like it it it can >> and it's like and yeah at some point it's like yeah of course the brain of course there's like there's like some subconscious pathway right that is going to see that and then and then trigger the immune system >> right just like how like things are triggered by stress and things are triggered by but it's it's it's a very I like the way that they did the experiment >> I was literally say with the VR and with

1:13:45the >> I think that's the that's the interesting I think it's like even in this manufactured nonre because you could argue like if it's human to human it's real life right there is something that is subtly different yeah >> about like the real world interaction versus an abstraction via the VR headset what's almost fascinating is that it still activates >> yeah like like obviously they knew they were in Oculus >> right they were like they were consciously aware that they're in a VR system, but like still the the subconscious part of the pathway was like h that person's got a rash like you

1:14:25know >> like whatever neural network is working in the background identifying like >> that's sick people you know when people say I feel like I'm getting like they get that feeling that they feel like they know they're about to get sick it's kind of like this interaction >> yeah and like >> yeah that's cool that's actually really really cool. The experimental design is interesting because it sort of creates one interesting degree of separation like we just talked about >> and the fact that the system still has similar >> uh activation levels. >> Yeah. >> Um with a with a with a digital I mean there's there's so many like weird implications of that because you could again you could probably extrapolate

1:15:06there's a lot of people who have had concerns about like digital companions and VR and its ability to affect your like emotional >> Yeah. But this is this is going even beyond that. It's not even it's like it's like this subconscious immune system thing that I didn't even know I could control. But like vis visible stimuli is now controlling it. which sort of brings up this like issue of like okay so that means right like all of our forms of visual consumption >> regardless of whether it's real on the phone >> or or digital >> is is having this at least in this context >> wow I didn't even think about that >> you know what I'm saying like that that

1:15:47implications of that are actually kind of crazy >> that is kind of crazy [ __ ] >> yeah like which is why it's interesting they did VR with it for ethical reasons. >> Yeah. >> Um but >> No, but no, you're right. It's like >> like where does that stop? >> Yeah. It's like it's like the the content that I consume >> digitally, how much is that shaping like a subconscious >> Yes. >> part of me, like my body. >> Yes. >> More than my mind at this point, right? >> You would maybe make the argument that with VR because it more closely mimics your normal perception. >> Yeah. I mean, that's the point. >> That that that probably has a higher >> Yeah. Yeah. >> whatever like impact. >> Yes. Yes. But it's it's not a steep cut off, right? There's going to be

1:16:27>> some gra and so the question is what is the delta between the VR context versus the Anyway, I this is >> I didn't even think about that, dude. >> This is why we love mystery box. >> That's crazy. >> What a great story, dude. >> Yeah, I thought it was I saw this. I was like, "Oh, dude, Lester is going to love this. >> I'm I I Oh my god, I hate being sick. It's the worst thing ever." Yeah. However, it is good to know, >> you know, don't look at the sick people. Don't look at the sick. Yeah. Yeah. Just don't look at them, dude. >> It's like that. What is that? Um it's it's not like um there's those >> Well, but then your your immune system won't get primed and then maybe you will actually get sick. >> So this I don't even know. Yeah. Look, this is chicken and egg. >> Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

1:17:09>> With that, we are going to wrap up this week's episode of From First Principles. I am your host again, Lester Nari, joined by my co-host and the smartest person I know, as well as our resident PhD Christian. >> You need You need to get more friends, mate. >> We'll see you guys next week. Peace. [Music]